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How should Latter-day Saints talk about the Great Apostasy today? In this episode of Dialogue Out Loud, Dialogue Editor Taylor Petrey sits down with author and doctrinal historian Charles Harrell to explore his article from the Spring 2025 issue of Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, titled “John Taylor on the ‘Dark Ages.’”
Harrell’s close reading of an oft-cited 1873 sermon by LDS Church President John Taylor challenges a common reinterpretation that has shaped modern, more conciliatory Apostasy narratives. By returning to the historical and rhetorical context of Taylor’s words, Harrell shows that the sermon has been misunderstood—and that its use as a proof text for a spiritually rich medieval period doesn’t hold up.
Together, Harrell and Petrey discuss how this reinterpretation came about, why it has gone unchallenged for decades, and what it reveals about the evolving ways Latter-day Saints approach history, spiritual authority, and interfaith respect.
About the Guest:
Charles Harrell is a retired associate professor of manufacturing engineering at BYU and founder of ProModel Corporation. A passionate doctrinal historian, he is the author of “This Is My Doctrine”: The Development of Mormon Theology (Kofford Books, 2011), and has published widely on doctrinal development in the Latter-day Saint tradition. He splits his time between Orem and Washington, Utah with his wife, Yvonne.